Father Christopher Hartley, diocesan priest of Toledo and missionary in Ethiopia, tells in the prologue of a book about Garabandal his relationship with this place and how it influenced his priestly vocation:
The Blessed Virgin appeared in the town of San Sebastian of Garabandal to four girls from that hidden and cramped town, on the slopes of the impressive Cantabrian mountain range, in the municipality of Rionansa.
Four girls, village teenagers: Mari Loli, Jacinta, Mari Cruz and Conchita.
A beautiful love story between a mother and her daughters. Between the Blessed Virgin Mary and – through these daughters of hers – with all of us, with all humanity.
From 1961 to 1965, on the side of the mountain, in the shade and the cool breeze of the pine trees, the Mother of God visited that town, as if She were one more neighbour, her own village. She, with those four girls, the good people of the town and – with the passing of time – thousands of pilgrims, went through its streets, its humble stone houses, about eighty at the time of the apparitions … There the Mother of God lived with her people, as the daughter of the town and at the same time as Lady and Queen of its people … As she did in those hidden years of Nazareth.
I went to Garabandal as a pilgrim for the first time when I was just a child, it would be mid-1969, along with my mother and other pilgrims coming from Madrid … I was 10 years old at that time, nothing more, but I remember it perfectly as if it had been this morning.
The memory of the heart fills me with tears and endearing memories, of indescribable emotions that squeeze in the small heart of just a child.
I firmly believed in the veracity of the apparitions, from the first moment, as if it were the most normal thing in the world, because I believed everything my mother told me with blind faith and absolute certainty.
I remember climbing up to the pine trees, climbing the elusive slopes and the uneven cobbles covered with mosses and ferns, with the innocent joy of those who know that the grass, those branches, had been stepped on by my Blessed Mother. There I knew everything about Her … I remember Marichu’s house in which I stayed, the kitchen in the basement and the elderly sitting around the walnut table talking about the apparitions with a choked voice and full of emotion.
I do not know how much I would understand, but there I was, sitting on the stairs and looking excitedly through the wooden bars of the railing; I would not understand much, but I was fascinated. With open eyes and even more open heart.
I remember that while the elders climbed slowly and fatigued to the pines, watching where they stepped while they prayed the Hail Marys panting, I climbed like a deer up the slopes, I had to get to the pines first … From there, I looked down triumphantly, like the one who has arrived first, while the older ones, with their heads down, slowly walked up and sat on the meadow next to the apparition pine tree.
We visited the village church … everything seemed so old … so old, so cramped … I saw that my mother sat with the women, and they sent me to the back of the church where the men sat … After mass we greeted the parish priest, Don Valentin Marichalar, who climbed on horseback from Cosío. I remember his silhouette, with the cassock of a frayed and solemn black at the same time, and it made a huge impression on me.
We greeted the seers in their homes, I remember perfectly the morning we visited Conchita, it was a sunny and cool day, although it was already in June. There was a low wooden bench attached to the wall of the house next to his door. I was sitting next to his mother, Aniceta, a wonderful village woman, strong and straight, tanned with suns and rains, of the thousand inclemencies of a hard and worked life.
I had my priestly vocation at age fifteen, it was March 8, 1974. I asked my parents for permission to go alone to Garabandal on the Saint Joseph holiday weekend, with my climber’s backpack and my tent. I remember leaving the Northern Station of Madrid towards Torrelavega, from there, through Puentenansa and Cosío, I climbed the last five kilometers to Garabandal. I camped in the pines, lying in my sleeping bag, I cooked and I was going to wash in the river … I had two weeks of vocation and almost nobody knew it yet! The secret of a fifteen-year-old kid.
And there, kneeling under the shade of the pines, I prayed the rosary and read the Bible … such was the emotion and awe I felt, that two weeks later – it was Holy Week – I came back with my backpack full of teenage dreams, I was going to be a priest !
On Holy Thursday I went to the religious services with the rest of the town and many pilgrims and foreigners … I saw that there was a priest confessing, they told me that the bishop had sent him those days to celebrate the holy triduum and that he was staying at Maximina’s house, Conchita’s aunt.
I confessed with him. I do not remember the sins of a kid that I would confess to him, what I do remember was that I told him that “I wanted to be a priest”.
His name was Father Luis Martinez.
I owe to this priest that I found in the church of Garabandal almost everything that I am today. I did not have much more dealings with him, but his influence was going to be decisive for my future:
He was the one who encouraged my parents to give me permission to enter the seminary in September of that same year.
It was he who told my parents to send me to the Toledo seminary … If I had not entered the Toledo seminary, what would have happened to me …?
That “vocational confession” was so long in that tiny and ramshackle confessional, that the people of the town, years later, said “look, that’s the kid who made that so long confession”. I was on my knees all the time while I entrusted this magnificent pastor of souls my vocational concerns, but I spent time as if nothing …
Garabandal – with its simple message, its austere call to conversion, to prayer, to fasting, to penance, to think more about the Passion of the Lord and to grow in devotion to the Holy Eucharist … with its cry of warning before the priests, bishops and cardinals who go down the path of perdition, dragging with them many souls … – remains a place of grace and salvation, a privileged place of the Spanish Marian geography.
Our Lady went through every little corner of that village, as if it were her own town, as if She were one more woman of that land, starting with “the alley (la calleja)” at the foot of the apple tree. From there, with the help of the Archangel Saint Michael she continues to call us all, to a life of conversion and penance, of repentance and new life.
The years have passed since the last time the Blessed Virgin appeared to these four girls, now teenagers. But She is still there, as a guide and teacher of pilgrims, inviting us all to look at Jesus Christ in his Blessed Catholic Church, moving gently, tenderly as a mother, to the sacraments of Confession and the Holy Eucharist.
May this book help you discover a simple story, of a simple town, where Our Lady Saint Mary, under the invocation of Our Lady of Carmen, walked with her people, the people of her Son.
May the Good God, discover what I discovered, what a fifteen-year-old boy discovered through its narrow streets.
What God wants from you.
Father Christopher Hartley
Diocesan priest of Toledo (Spain)
Missionary in Ethiopia
Comment: I love this writing by Father Christopher Hartley, a Spanish-British priest, a brave missionary in Africa and South America, who was also with Mother Theresa. I am trying to find the book about Garabandal where this introduction was published and it is now remembered by Infovaticana.
Dear Gigi and Pepe
Thanks for your link and comments.
As there was no link attached in your previous comment yesterday I found it directly in Italian
and this is really interesting…The mass is served on a table ( according to pope Paul VI. and Bugnini “command” , well the year 1968 has already set in ) but I clearly hear that Padre Pio speaks in Latin and the tune of Kyrie Eleison is Tridentine Mass for 100 %.So, he might be persuaded by this superiors to serve this last mass on the table facing the people in order to give greater credibility to the New mass which at that time started to be appearing but in his heart he had to suffer terribly for the injustice which had been committed by the enemies upon the mystical body of Church.This explains the contribution of the Remnant Newspaper on this subject.
Once again thanks for your insight.
Hi Frank, the mass is the new, latin is not important
They will be speaking about peace but preparing for the War.
Shane I forgot to address your last statement.
“An apology and some words of consolation are the least he could do to a man whose childhood was destroyed. Shane”
True, enough. However, I can think of several people alive right now in “Chile”, that deservingly should be at top of that apologizing list. I certainly agree with that. And certainly Bergolio SHOULD apologize for saying no proof exist of sexual abuse or for the coverups he partook while he was Bishop in Buenos Aires.
But you see, YOU MISS THE BIG PICTURE BY A MILE:
Bergolio’s halfhearted and disingenuous apology was not about HIS refusal to believe the VICTIMS of abuse. Which he should rightly apologize FOR.
His apology was that of implicitly noting that, QUOTE: “God made you like this and loves you like this and I don’t care.” Bergolio, here is IMPLYING that the condition of HOMOSEXUALITY is of GOD’S making, and not of our CHOOSING. Like I said…BERGOLIO is DEAD wrong on that. God may have made humans and certainly no one is perfect we all have our imperfections, but he wants us to STRIVE to be perfect. And how do we be PERFECT, by controlling our PASSIONS and aligning OUR WILL with the LORD’S. Even those PASSIONS that we are predisposed too.
I plead with you. Open your mind, and THINK critically. Do You know why Christ is referred to the LOGOS? Jesus is REASON along with TRUTH. For you see not only do I believe in Christ being the Son of God by Faith, but by REASON. God wants us to use what he gave us between our shoulders and to THINK.
Therefore, when this man “Juan Carlos Cruz” is referred to as a GAY man. We must only conclude that he practices the SIN, that we are talking about here. Yes, he was abused sexually. But what does GAY man to you mean if he is not practicing? Homosexuality is not a CONDITION. It’s not like he was born with DOWN syndrome. There is NO SCIENTIFIC proof of a Homosexual GENE. Homosexuality is an ACT willingly done, despite our Natural law.
You are using mental gymnastics if you refuse to ignore what’s obvious about this poor victim. He’s been abused, that’s not what’s in dispute here, he needs help and counseling true enough…and the Pope rather than help him by telling him that his current condition AND therefore willful sexual lifestyle…now that he’s an adult, is not something the LORD looks at in a pleasing manner. No, rather than say that to help poor Juan, he tells him that he was “BORN” this way…and that “GOD LOVES him the way he is”.
Really? Loves him the way he is? So no need to turn from the SIN he continues to wallow in, huh? So, I guess the lord can be progressive, he just needs some time I suppose. Boy the Lord must have been really uptight during the time of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Don’t believe me listen to the man himself:
Thank you Mike. Since I came to pay a brief visit to this forum a few days ago, I have been called “nuts”, “inviting God’s wrath”, “you misrepresent the reality, as tbe GREAT DECEIVER does. You are acting as a stumbling block for Christians in order to remove them from Christ’s protection and to cause them to sin. Have you been indoctrinated and are innocent or are you a deceiver? Which is it?”, “I suggest you to go back to your Catechism if at least you understand about what I am talking”, “You are using mental gymnastics if you refuse to ignore what’s obvious about this poor victim”, “God wants us to use what he gave us between our shoulders and to THINK”, and more self-righteous, condescending content of this nature. Not all you, Mike, but I am just demonstrating again how poorly Christ is being represented here on this forum. Nobody here has accepted a clear distinction between the homosexual condition and the acts. The Catechism does, The Church does. You, who challenge me in a superior tone to THINK say “Therefore, when this man “Juan Carlos Cruz” is referred to as a GAY man. We must only conclude that he practices the SIN, that we are talking about here.” That is not thinking, that is presumption. Here in Ireland we have recently been through a Gay marriage referendum. I met many gay men who do not, and intend never to, practice homosexual sex. They recognise that such behaviour is sinful. They have the wisdom and humility to submit their “passions”, as you call them, to the virtue of chastity as taught by the Church. I honour them here publicly, as I honour every gay man or woman who strives to do what is pleasing to God. You plead with me in your familiar condescending way to “open my mind”. My mind and my heart are very open to God. I am devoted to Jesus Christ and His Mystical Body, The Church. I have spoken only straight, truthfully, upholding the teaching of the Church. The article you placed on this forum, from, of all places, The Sun newspaper, contains not one word to suggest that Mr. Cruz is a sinner. And yet you come onto this public forum making a presumption and condemning Pope Francis as a result. All I can finally say on all of this is that I hope, I desperately hope, that Our Lord Jesus Christ will have Mercy on all of us, and welcome all of us who are striving to love Him in His Mystical Body. If any person who has same sex attraction happens (and he or she would be very brave to do so) to venture onto this forum, I say to you that you are welcome in Christ Jesus’ Church. Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church if in any doubt. Before being Gay was acceptable in society, The Catholic Church was defending your dignity and your right not to be discriminated against in any way. While we understand that same-sex attraction is a disorder, that does not make you any worse or better than another person. You, if a baptised Catholic man, can be priest, Bishop and Pope, if the Lord so calls you. I, a heterosexual man, father of 10, devotee of Our Lady of Garabandal, husband of a beautiful Spanish woman, stand at your side as you try to live chastely, and I commit to supporting you in any way I can. Mike, Pepe, and Aviso, I send you love and respect, and humbly ask you to present yourselves and your beliefs and opinions in a more humble way, or you run the risk of hurting people and alienating them from Christ’s Church. Shane
Shane. I have approved your latest comment and I hope I do so with Aviso’s blessing. I have refrained from entering in to this discussion principally because it is not directly related to the Garabandal story. However the topic raised does relate to the construct of the anti-church and in that sense falls indirectly under the themes of Garabandal and Fatima. That is because the anti church will be the vehicle by which Satan will consolidate and direct his hatred toward The Holy Trinity, the Holy Mother of God and Purity of the Bride of Christ. It is to be the final and decisive battle ground between The Virgin and the Serpent.
As foretold the smoke of Satan within the Church will reach the very top and in doing so will bring the institutional Church in to an unholy alliance with him in order to destroy belief in the millennial dogmas and truths concerning the Sacraments of Holy Matrimony, the Holy Eucharist and the sacramental of the Christian family as exemplified by the Holy Family. In doing so there will be so much confusion in the Church that Cardinals will oppose Cardinals etc. The anti church will in the end condone, accommodate and publicly bless irregular relationships comprising of homosexuals, adulterers and transsexuals. These along with Protestants of all flavours will be admitted to reception of the Holy Eucharist without encouragement to convert, amend their lives and subsequently receive absolution. These accommodations ridicule the Sacrament of Confession and the True Mercy of God. It is in the context of these topics forming pillars of the anti church that the conversation has been approved.
As a final comment on the subject, self categorisation or determination of ones’s own human identity is not a mortal sin, this applies to those who genuinely live with same sex attraction and gender confusion. A mortal sin is committed only when a person willingly and deliberately accedes to and engages in behaviours, (whether by act, thought, desire or omission), that are contrary to the Ten Commandments or fall in to the category of the seven deadly sins. In this context Shane is correct and rightly refers readers to Church teaching on the subject.
May I remind contributors to this blog that we must avoid at all times any inflammatory, insulting and hurtful language when offering a critique of other’s opinions. Such brings the endeavours of this site in to disrepute, is judgemental and can be sinful.
The original point was that Pope Francis is reported to have said, ” God made you this way.” All the objections to this were based on the truth that God does not make people “gay.” Sin in the world makes them this way. Mr. Cruz’s proper, wholesome sexual development was corrupted and distorted by the paedophile priest, and the Bishop who watched and sometimes joined in. This, of course, does not mean that any blame for this can be laid on Mr. Cruz but it CAN be attributed as the result of the sin of the priest and Bishop involved. It CANNOT BE BLAMED ON GOD – which is the scandalous thing Pope Francis is alleged to have done. Are you claiming, Mr. Hogan, that God makes people “gay”?
Pope Francis is the one who wanted to change the Our Father because he said Jesus’s words needed fixing because God does not lead us into temptation, yet he is now allegedly declaring that the same God makes people gay!
Mr. Hogan, you are confusing two different things, whether deliberately or not. One is that people can feel attracted to the same sex – but that does not mean they ” were born that way.” It could be a result of the sin of an absent or neglectful father, or abuse by an elder for example. Neither such examples make the person guilty for feeling that way, the sin is with the adult who caused that distortion. Secondly, is the supposed statement that Francis made, laying the blame on Almighty God! This is a scandal! Of course God loves Mr. Cruz, no-one is denying that. But that does not mean that God made him “gay.” God loves everyone, but he didn’t make us greedy or tyrants or murderers or prostitutes or sociopaths – the sin of the world did that.
Pope Francis should certainly tell Mr. Cruz that God loves him but HE LIES AGAINST GOD IF HE BLAMES GOD FOR MR CRUZ’S SEXUAL ATTRACTIONS AND NOT BISHOP BARROS AND THE ABUSIVE PRIEST WHO DISTORTED HIS SEXUAL DEVELOPMENT WHEN HE WAS A CHILD. THIS is what commentators were rejecting, and rightly so.
Ireland has caused me to cry tonight as I witness the diabolical result of false compassion. False compassion for people who are attracted to others of the same sex is likewise leading to telling them lies that God deliberately made them like that. And these Truths are far too important to worry over trifles like your feathers being ruffled because people cared enough to speak quickly and strongly. Jesus was quite prepared to speak harshly and strongly too, and He cut through to the heart of the matter. His disdain was reserved for those who were neither hot nor cold, not people who cared enough to try to call out falsehood when they saw it!
Dear Shane Hogan,
In my opinion you should have approached the topic of homosexuality differently. But you were inflammatory. You said that… “We should be open even to the possibility of having a homosexual Pope”. My reaction and comments were are response, from my perspective, to your arrogant stance. I felt you attempted to dictate your interpretation of morality to the rest of us “ignorant people”.
The first sensible thing you said is that “same-sex attraction is a disorder”. The scientific literature offers an explanation of this type of disorder. It is a form of obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD), where obsessive thinking is prominent and compulsion to act is minimal, or where compulsion to act is prominent and obsessive thinking is minimal.
OCD can be treated with medication, with certain antidepressents.
The problem is that if mental illness is raised with regards to homosexuality and treatment proposed with antidepressants, then the brave healthcare professional who raises this issue is labelled a bigot by a society that overwhelmingly considers homosexuality and homosexual sex to be absolutely normal.The same society that considers homosexuality to be absolutely normal also considers Christianity and Jesus Christ himself to be misguided and incompatible with society.
If celibate priests find it hard to remain celibate, do you think that celibate homosexuals are better than priests at remaining celibate, given as you stated, that homosexuality is a disorder?
Pete’s wonderful analysis explains things better than I can. I won’t be speaking about this topic any further.
Sorry, just a very few words. Then I stop on this: I promise. The intensity of this discussion proves how divisive and confusional are this mediatic initiatives of Bergoglio&Co. This does not happen by chance. Every detail of the public show is planned in advance: Bergoglio&Co are very careful not to say anything blatantly heretic, but at the same time they purposely hint that sinful behaviors are, at the end of the day, acceptable. This could be extremely dangerous for the souls that do not have the spiritual strength and light to fight their battle and win it: they deserve clarity and encouragement in the right direction, and from Bergoglio&Co get instead an implicit ‘blessing’ to get on their sinful way.
We should stay united, and watchful, in prayer, The Serpent is subtle, elusive and clever. Don’t be deceived.
God bless us all,
This is for Shane Hogan. I would recommend you to read today’s online edition of Lifesite News. I think the article on how chaste- living same sex attracted Catholics have been extremely hurt by Pope Francis’s reportedly saying that ” God made them” homosexual and how they strongly dispute that, would be educational for you. God does NOT make people homosexual. That is heresy.
I understand and respect your defense of Bergoglio, and I am sure you are in perfect good faith, but one must stick to the facts…
Bergoglio is not the pope AND HE PERFECTLY KNOWS IT.
– he always refers to himself as the ‘Bishop of Rome’;
– he wears and iron (and esoteric=Ordo Templis Orientis) cross (forged by a masonic artist) vs the gold one of Benedict the XVI;
– he doesn’t live in the papal premises.
I’ll tell you more: Bergoglio doesn’t want to be the pope either: his only purpose is to merge the Church of Christ in a masonic new world order universal religion. He will partially succeed…for a little while…He is the mercenary who doesn’t care the flock…
If you don’s see this now, don’t worry because you will soon: he will reveal himself more and more as time goes on…
God bless you, Shane. Let’s pray for each other.
Dear Enrico, Thank you for your reply. Thank you most of all for your decency and good manners and kindness, qualities which seem to be very unusual on this forum. Yes, let’s pray for each other and try to make Jesus’ prayer come true “may they be one, Father, as You and I are one”. I read what you say and it is terrifying. I haven’t offered any defence of Pope Francis, in fact, (contrary to what you and Aviso say) because I don’t know enough to do so. All I have done is pledge my loyalty and submission to him because of the chair he occupies, the chair of Peter. His photo hangs on the wall of my parish church, next to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, as it does in nearly all Irish churches. When his predecessor Pope John Paul II came to Ireland in 1979, I travelled a long distance to attend his Mass and just to look directly upon him. I will do the same next August when Pope Francis comes to Dublin for the World Meeting of Families. I am not judging him in any way. He may turn out to be the worst Pope we have ever had, as many here think, or not. We have had some really terrible Popes in history! But as the Pope, I am willing to die for him. God bless you, Enrico. Shane
Many thanks for your message and for your warm defense of our common values. I am really impressed and moved, really. It’s evident that the real Irish blood flows through your veins!
I hope you did not misunderstand me: I am not judging anyone, Our Lord will (or, if you prefer, anyone is judged by his/her own acts). I am simply looking at the signs of times, and strive not to be deceived (as Our Lord asks us to do).
If you are following the Garabandal messages you certainly know that according to Our Lady we had entered the ‘end of times’ (which is not the end of the World, obviously). The Irish bishop Saint Malachy has prophesied about the future popes with incredible accuracy and, according to his listing, Benedict the XVI is the last one (at least in the sense in which we intend the role). After (or togheter with) him -it is not clear- in Saint Malachy’s prophecy appears ‘Petrus Romanus’, who is clearly not a ‘pope’ because it is not designated with a latin verse, who oversees the ‘destruction of Rome’ (a destruction which will be material and spiritual) .
Incidentally, Conchita also indicated Benedict XVI as the ‘last pope’. This is not a coincidence! …Here we are.
‘Rome will lose the faith and will became the seat of the antichrist’ Our Lady has also warned us in La Salette, in 1846, and …here we are.
Stay strong in your faith, and attached to Our Lady and the Rosary, and all will be clear to you. Vey soon.
Pray for me! I assure you about my prayers for you and your beloved ones.
Gigi, may I ask you where have you learned that Padre Pio had served once ( one time ) new order of mass? I´ve heard from a pious priest that he refused it flatly saying:”I either keep on celebrating Mass of All ages or I´ll serve nothing and asked pope Paul VI. for a dispensation.He had been given it.
the last mass, Frank. this is the link of youtube, but i knew he cried fot this, and he celebrated only because there were his prayer’s groups. God bless ou. p.s im from south italy from Puglia, the same region of San Giovanni Rotondo.
this is link, Frank
Dear Gigi & Frank,
I am not up to speed with the significance of the Novus Ordo Mass, but according to this Catholic website Saint Padre Pio NEVER said the Novus Ordo Mass:
It states that it is misinformation… “Words written by two Capuchin priests, who actually knew and lived with Padre Pio, have become the genesis of fallacious theories proposing that Padre Pio said the Novus Ordo Mass. One of those priests, Father Pellegrino Funicelli,…
This is an interesting article. I thought you may be interested in it in this Catholic Newspaper.
Sorry, in that previous comment I meant Mike, not Pete. Who is Pete??? Shane
Sorry, Shane if I step in the discussion, which is a bit out of the scope of this article anyway…
It should be clear to anyone observing the present status of the Holy Church in the light of the Holy Spirit that Bergoglio IS NOT THE POPE!
Why? It’s really very simple!
In very few words (I can elaborate more, on request):
1. Ratzinger ‘renouncement’ to the Papacy was forced, and thus invalid;
2. He never, actually, renounced (simply ‘delegated’ the ”active exercise of the papal functions’, which was not in its power to do anyway);
3. Bergoglio was elected with an irregularity in the counting of the votes which, canonically, voided the procedure according to the canonical law.
Plase, do nor hesitate to ask me to elaborate on any of this points if you wish (you or anyone else) and I will deliver. Personally, I take them for granted.
I am confident that you are familiar with the vision of blessed Catherine Emmerich. If not, you’ll find a synthesis below:
Here we are…
One can call this fictitious and abusive pope with his name (Bergoglio) of with his biblical function (the ‘false prophet’ prophesied in the Apocalypse) at his/her own wish. The substance does not change.
God bless us all,
I respectfully disagree, Enrico. Pope Francis is the Pope, validly elected and accepted as so by the body of Bishops worldwide. The vast majority of Catholic people also accept him. Pope Emeritus Benedict also accepts him and submits to his authority. I pledge to him my allegiance as successor of St. Peter. I would refer you to Ron Conte for explicit explanation in this regard. eg https://ronconte.wordpress.com/2017/02/20/is-pope-francis-the-valid-pope/
I read your comment, Mike. I think you need to be careful about your comments and the tone you adopt. We should not refer to our Holy Father as “Bergolio”. He is correct to offer consolation to a man horribly abused by a Catholic priest. He is correct to say that God loves him. He is correct to counsel him to be happy with himself and inside himself. Our catechism calls on us all to treat homosexual people with love, care and compassion, and to avoid any discriminatory actions or language in their regard. We should be open even to the possibility of having a homosexual Pope. Your comment is disrespectful to Pope Francis, very uncompassionate to Mr. Cruz (a man who bears the name of Christ’s Cross) and inflammatory in tone. Please reconsider your approach and realise that we are all deep sinners, all deeply in need of Christ’s Mercy, and we have no business publicly judging each other in such harsh terms. Shane
Dear Shane Hogan,
You said : “We should be open even to the possibility of having a homosexual Pope”.
Mate, you are nuts!
It is one thing to be tolerant and respectful of homosexuals, but completely another to say Homosexuality is okay. From God’s perspective, (and hence the duty to adopt this perspective by every faithful Christian), homosexuality is sexual immorality. It is one of the greater sins next to abortion.
The theology on this matter is indisputable. In the Bible God said that if a man beds another man, then that man will be destroyed, both in body and soul. If you identify yourself as a Christian, then it is your duty to respect God’s perspective. If you do not accept this, then you are inviting God’s wrath on you. Sorry, but there are consequences to disrespecting God’s perspective. It is called the Great Chastisement, that will follow the Great Warning if humanity does not change its ways.
In any event, if a Pope was to come out and identify himself as being homosexual, it would automatically trigger a great Schism and a bloody and violent Civil War within and without the Church will ensue. Multitudes of Clergy will indeed be killed with the flowing of oceans of blood.
I would not be surprised if the adoption of homosexuality as a virtue by the Church, (and the acceptance of abortion by the Church too) will play a large role in hastening the Great Warning to come.
Let us pray that humanity learns to respect God’s perspective.
Pepe, I assure you I am not nuts. You are confusing the condition of homosexuality (not sinful) with the practise of homosexuality (absolutely, sinful). There is nothing wrong or objectionable about a sincere homosexual man choosing to live a life of holiness and chastity, for the glory of God, and eventually being elevated to the Petrine office. I challenge you to rethink your position. What you write could be very hurtful to many Catholics and others who struggle daily with same-sex attraction. Who are you to judge “such and such sinner is not good enough to be Pope”? The views you express, and those of Pete whom I replied to, are out of line with Catholic Church teaching and the call to love all people. Shane
Shane, you are correct in what you say. We should love the sinner and hate the sin. But you leave out one very important point. In loving the sinner we must help him come to the truth and repent. No matter what great deeds the sinner has done he can not enter Heaven with unforgiven and unrepentant mortal sins. It is our duty to help each other get to Heaven. By allowing the person to commit mortal sins for whatever reason is seriously wrong on our part. This is a very delicate situation, you do not want to alienate the person but you also do not want to allow this person to be condemned because we did not help him by bringing him back to God.
As for a homosexual Pope, well that can never be. At least a true Pope can never be homosexual. The Vicar of Christ MUST be in full communion with the Church.
Finally, you are correct in the fact that we are all in need of God’s Mercy, but remember there is no Mercy without Justice. We do not get a free pass for showing up, we must make amends and pay for our sins. That is God’s Justice. God has given us a way to correct our sins, a very easy way. Go to confession, say your penance and be truly sorry for offending God. He has made it easy for us on this side. It is in this world He shows his Mercy. When we stand in front of Him he will show His Justice.
Thank you for your reply, Sal. I want to respond for clarification. I agree that when we know of someone who is in sin, it is our duty to help that person, by whatever means we think best, and always being careful about Jesus’ warning regarding splinter and plank, to help that person come to repentance. The article posted by Mike spoke of a man, Mr. Cruz, who had been terribly sexually abused as a child, who now declares himself to be homosexual, and to whom Pope Francis offered words of consolation and apology. The article gives no indication that Mr. Cruz is a practising homosexual. This is the distinction I must again make. You, and Pepe before you, seem to be presuming that Mr. Cruz is engaging in homosexual acts. That is a very big presumption. I know many heterosexual people who are not engaging in heterosexual acts. I know one, and know of many, homosexual men who have chosen, for specific faith reasons, not to engage in homosexual acts. Being in such a condition is NOT sinful and there is nothing, mortal or otherwise, in it that needs to be confessed. Such a person can be a single man, priest, brother, bishop or Pope, can be Holy, can be in the State of Grace, Saintly. Such a person can be far closer to God than you or I. Again I say, we can have a homosexual Pope, we may have already had one or many. Priests, bishops and Popes, since they have chosen to live a celibate life, don’t usually discuss their own sexual attractions or tendencies. It is not an issue when a person understands and lives the virtue of chastity.
I want to comment on your last paragraph regarding justice and mercy. “we must make amends and pay for our sins” is not quite true, though you do go on to clarify this. Jesus has paid for our sins. Having been incorporated into Christ, by sacrament and by faith, our confessed sins are separated from us as far as east is from west. Jesus has already shown us His Justice at Calvary, and we can gaze upon His Justice every time we are at Calvary during Holy Mass, and then we can fall on our kness in gratitude for what He has done for an abject sinner like me, and I then decide to resist all tendency to judge others. I now want to just help others find Jesus’ loving mercy, and the tone and attitude of some posts here (not yours, Sal, you are very gentle and respectful) are very contrary to that. If Mr. Cruz walked into my presence now I would welcome him and honour him and do all I could to help him move to forgive his abuser and all those who knew and did nothing. Shane
1) He was born with the Name Bergolio. There is no shame in calling him by his last name.
2) Though we are compelled to love our fellow man, we are not compelled to love the “SIN” they choose to continue to pursue. Showing love and compassion does not mean acceptance or tolerance of known SINFUL behavior. If a Child is born with a predisposition to Alcoholism or some other behavior which may peril his soul, the correct way to show love, mercy and compassion is not by looking upon his predilection as a pass for him to engage in it. NO, the correct way to show compassion is through showing that EVEN though he is predisposed to drunkenness or homosexuality for example that he does not have to give into his passions and thereby become a slave to them. No, the proper way of expressing love is first and foremost point out that GOD loves him and for whatever the reason he made him that way, but yet IN this life WE HAVE TO each one pick up our cross and follow Jesus. For each one of us SUFFERS.
3) I often wonder how learned Bergolio is in matters of suffering? Particularly, if he ever studied, what Saint Alphonsus de Liguori said about it, in “Uniformity with God’s Will”:
“A person who rails at God in adversity, suffers without merit; moreover by his lack of resignation he adds to his punishment in the next life and experiences greater disquietude of mind in this life: “Who resisteth him and hath peace?”(Job 9:4) The screaming rage of the sick man in his pain, the whining complaints of the poor man in his destitution-what will they avail these people, except increase their unhappiness and bring them no relief? “Little man,” says St. Augustine, “grow up. What are you seeking in your search for happiness? Seek the one good that embraces all others….”
4) Again, as I have said in the past. Bergolio’s papacy is focused on the material; The Vicar of Christ should point to those who are suffering, whether rich or poor, or immigrant, or gay, or straight, black or white, man or woman to look to Christ to help them in their suffering for it is he who will bring relief.
What sin are you aware of in Mr. Cruz’s life? The article you posted makes me aware of none. It only confirms the horror of his abuse and the words of consolation of the Holy Father. If you are aware of some sin in his life from a different source then so be it. However, I still reject the criticism of Pope Francis in this particular case. An apology and some words of consolation are the least he could do to a man whose childhood was destroyed. Shane
Yes, you are not nuts. I fear you are somethilng worse, you misrepresent the reality, as tbe GREAT DECEIVER does. You are acting as a stumbling block for Christians in order to remove them from Christ’s protection and to cause them to sin. Have you been indoctrinated and are innocent or are you a deceiver? Which is it?
Those who fight for homosexuality are fighting for the right to treat as normal homosexual sex. That is what Bergolio wants in order to gain the support of notorious practising homosexual clergy: Priests, Bishops, and. Cardinals for his ungodly agenda.
St Paul in Corinthians warns us not associate with such people that includes fornicators, liars, murderers …etc… because we run the risk of becoming like them.
Homosexuals should be treated with courtesy and common decency, but keep away from them, lest you are converted by them to participate in sexual immorality. This I believe is St Paul’s argument.
If anyone considers themselves to be practising Christians, then they respect God’s perspective and become imitators of God’s love.
Pepe, With respect, your accusations directed towards me are unfounded. I have posted enough here on a simple distinction, clear to anyone of basic intelligence, between homosexuality as a condition (not sinful) and homosexual practice (sinful). Do you understand that? Nothing in the article posted by Mike indicates any sin in Mr. Cruz’s life. And yet, you come on here talking about oceans of blood and being a stumbling block for Christians. Your posts are out of order. Shane
I believe I have hit the bulls-eye with regards to your deception. I am speaking about homosexuality as a topic with no reference to Cruz whatsoever.
The distinction between the state of homosexuality and the homosexual act is misleading because they are intertwined and it stands to reason that one thing leads to another. For example, Jesus Christ has told us that even if you think about another man’s wife in sexual terms, you are still committing adultery. This is the same with homosexuality. The difference is that heterosexual transgressors can be forgiven for their sins, the sins outlined in the 10 Commandments. But in the scriptures, there is no provision for homosexuals. This is because the state of homosexuality leads to homosexual acts. One may ask what came first, the chicken or the egg?
Thus, in the Bible both Jesus Christ and St Paul state that it is good to be single and celibate, but if you burn with desire then it is better to marry in order not offend God with sin. This is the state for heterosexuals.
But what about the homosexual, where does this leave him? Jesus Christ has has made no provision for celibate homosexuals, and for good reason because doing so would condone the homosexual act, which is abhorrent to God.
The child sexual abuse victims perpetrated by the clergy is a such a tragedy. The clergy are required to remain celibate as part of their vows as priests. But when they transgress, 99.99% of time the clergy target male children, not female. Thus, these transgressors exhibit a state of homosexuality that manifests itself in homosexual acts.
The Church stance on homosexuality has “evolved” over the centuries and unfortunately it will continue to evolve to reflect the corrupt morality of the present age. Church Catechism with regards to homosexuality is being directed or influenced in large part by members of the clergy who are homosexual themselves. Thus, Bergoglio is acting as a politician and not as the Vicar of Christ.
As evidenced by the child abuse victims, homosexuality is such a corrupting force that it leads to celibate priests engaging in homosexual acts. There are also some well known members of the clergy worldwide who not only identify themselves as homosexual, but also openly engage in homosexual acts with each other, and with members of the public. Do a google search, especially in Italy, and you will get hits demonstrating this.
Therefore, my comments about “oceans of blood and being a stumbling block for Christians” is very valid indeed and it will be an act of God. It will be Jesus Christ’s wrath unleashed upon the Church, its bride, because the infidelity, the sin, is so great that not even the Madonna, the mother of Jesus Christ can dampen this fatal blow.
Thank you Shane for your comments but no promotion of Pope Francis is welcomed here on my blog, their are still (but it looks less and less, thanks God) few other blogs supporting him and they will be pleased to welcome you for sure, as I said 1000 times online this so called Pope will be in the history of the Church, the worst of all as indicated in the Apocalypse of St John, for the rest and about your comments on Homosexuality, well I have no word and I suggest you to go back to your Catechism if at least you understand about what I am talking, thank you again.
PS : On the way back online, slowly but surely, was very busy recently with many travels, sorry if I had no time to reply to all your emails, my mail box is full but will do it soon, thank you.
Aviso, hello again. As I.told you before, I regret the hostility towards Pope Francis shown here. With regard to homosexuality, I am very familiar with the teaching of the Church, as contained in the Catechism. “The Catholic Church holds that, as a state beyond a person’s choice, being homosexual is not wrong or sinful in itself. But just as it is objectively wrong for unmarried heterosexuals to engage in sex, so too are homosexual acts considered to be wrong.” I have always spoken with you politely and I find it hard to understand why you treat me so dismissively. Nothing I have said here regarding homosexuality is contrary to Church teaching. The arrogance and pride I experience here certainly is. With love and respect, Shane
Does our new Pope think that Homosexuality is okay with God. Oh well…I guess he can’t be bothered with what the Old and New Testament have to say about it.
Don’t worry, alcoholics, Pedophiles, drug abusers, etc.
“God made you like this and loves you like this and I don’t care.
“The pope loves you like this. You have to be happy with who you are.” Is that right, Bergolio??
Yes Mike, I heard it yesterday and was shocked, once again!! Why worrying about sins? We have a God who is so merciful (according to Bergoglio) that no matter what we do, we gonna be all saved!. So why being Catholics if every religion is just fine? Why trying hard to improve and gain the eternal life when all kind of sinners will have the same treatment? Don’t get me wrong, I’m a sinner as well and I don’t want to condemn anybody but I’m trying to become better every day and yes, it’s a struggle….I believe we are more and more close to the end of this Church as such….God save us
This is the summary:
The Great Tribulation of Communism: During the first of the “nights of the screams” the young girls (then ages 12 and 13) were shown the “sudden and unexpected” Tribulation of Communism led by Russia that will have an effect on the whole world, and which will happen before the Divine Warning to the entire human race. No one expects this because the world has been lulled into the false belief that Communism has died with the fall of the Berlin Wall and the dissolution of the Soviet Union.
It seems that the greatest trauma of this Tribulation will be felt in Europe. St. Padre Pio is reported to have said that the great Miracle to occur at Garabandal will be paid for by the blood of the Europeans—oceans of blood. Our Lady told Conchita that Communism will “come back” and that it will also come to Spain, but Spain would not suffer as intensely as the rest of Europe apparently because it had suffered Communism in the 1930’s. Conchita’s Aunt Antonia testified that she heard the girls say, while in ecstacy, that “if we don’t amend our ways, Russia will take possession of the whole world. Our Lady told the girls that during the time of this Tribulation the Church would seem to disappear, the Sacraments would be difficult to receive and the Priests would have to go into hiding. [Apparently many Priests will be killed.] When things are so bad that all hope seems lost, then God will send the Warning to all mankind. The Great Miracle will follow within 12 months, and there will be conversions of many nations, including Russia.
Is this narrative correct or wrong?
We should stick together in order to survive the war.
My Friends, will probably be back online soon, thank you.
Dear Aviso, we are missing your voice! Meanwhile, the situation is getting worse and worse in our Church!
This just to confirm, once again, our worries.
Ty Pete. It’s incredible as the blessed Eucharist is “suffering” in these our times. After that things Francis said about nuns, there are only secular women giving the Sacrament in my church… yesterday there was the Father too… im praying for clergy.
Visiting the most blessed Sacrament. Thinking to Christ’s Passion. Praying and offering penitence and sacrifices for sins.
Thank you, Sal, for the quote from Archbishop Sheen. Indeed, it is up to all of us to do our part, not just to wait around for the Warning. Yet, we do need the Holy Father, together with all the bishops of the Catholic world to make the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary in order to fulfill Our Lady’s request that there may be Peace in the world. I pray a rosary for this intention every day. I do not know if it will be Pope Francis or Pope Benedict, so I include them both in my prayer.
My CCD students made their First Holy Communion this morning. It was Communion in the hand by requirement. I did not go to the Mass, as I have been attending the Traditional Latin Mass for the last 9 months. I will no longer teach in the local parish now that I have fulfilled my commitment to the CCD program from the time before I was converted to the TLM. It isn’t right how the children are being forced to receive communion in the hand while standing. This will come to light at the Warning, I believe, along with so many things.
Meanwhile, I try to make corrections in my own life as I become aware. For instance, my husband and I are close to obtaining our foster-adoption certification. What educational opportunities are there that will form a child in virtue? Homeschooling is the only way. Therefore, I am immersing myself in principles of Classical education (the Trivium of Grammar, Logic and Rhetoric) which is so very different from the progressive education I received. The formation on my part is not going to happen overnight.
I am interested in what Aviso might have to share about “before 2020”, but only if he deems it appropriate.
Perfectly right, Pete.
And thank you (and thanks to God) for your enlighting and respectful (but nonetheless firm) moderation of this dialogues.
All the elements are lining up for the fulfillment of Our Queen prophecies, but timing is obviously in God’s hand and reserved to His Infinite Wisdom.
Personally (if I may), I believe it could be useful if Aviso could ask the very well informed person he mentioned regarding the ‘aviso’ happening before the 2020 and ask him/her to elaborate a bit on that, in light of present events, if possible…
…Even if I am pretty sure that he planned to do that, if not yet done…Aviso might want to shares the outcome with us, at his best convenience and if he deems it could be helpful.
Let’s stay in communion of prayer!
No Warning or Miracle in the upcoming 4 years, thank you.
Hi Jade. You may be right or wrong, but without reference to some form of evidence that brought you to this conclusion, the statement of it self is somewhat pointless and as such doesn’t add any light to the discussion. The speculation of when things may occur will continue to provoke thought and discussion, which is OK so long as we are careful such does not become a distraction to the messages.
This quote has always stuck in the back of my mind. When I first heard it I did not fully grasp what was being conveyed. Now with, hindsight, I understand how prophetic and frightening those words were.
“Who is going to save our Church? Do not look to the priests. Do not look to the bishops.
It’s up to you, the laity, to remind our priests to be priests and our bishops to be bishops.”
– Archbishop Fulton Sheen
I believe the trap people are falling into toady is we expect a magical event to happen. A mystical shot in the arm that will cure everything. So we focus on the event, plan for it, anticipate it and ultimately we will come up with excuses for why it didn’t come. This is human nature. We are fallen creatures, beaten down and overwhelmed with daily events. We don’t know where to start because we believe the amount of work is just to immense to fix. So we look for a miracle.
Now, maybe there will be a global warning in which everyone will realize their mistakes. I do not know nor do I believe it is my place to know when these things will occur. I do believe we have all received our own personal warning. I say this because for several years now this site has discussed and argued over when the warning will occur with no real consensus. The warning is to make us understand how we are offending God. What did we do wrong, intentionally or unintentionally, and ultimately get us to realign ourselves with God.
If over this whole period of discussion you have not looked at your own life and made adjustments, what makes you think you, or anyone, will change when this “warning” occurs? I have taken stock in my life, I understand I have much work to do to make up for my transgressions. I do not understand it all but I know I need to make reparations for the sins of the world and more importantly my own sins. I also realize I have a long journey to travel and if completed, it will be well worth it. Everyday I pray for the graces to stop offending God and for the strength to fix the offenses I have made. I do not think I would have come to this realization if it were not for the discussions that went on here and for those I had with others. My eyes have been opened because of having discussions with those who know the faith much better than I do. This revelation has been my warning.
Archbishop Sheen told us many years ago it will be up to us. It is true there is a lot of confusion in the world today and many problems to fix. So it is up to us to first fix our own lives so we can then dispel the confusion. This is not a one day event, there is no magical fix, just a lot of hard work. But isn’t Heaven worth it?
Garabandal is the place on earth where heaven has tauched this place of grace and salvation through the Blessed Mother!
hi aviso can you repost the quote you got from someone in 2015 about the warning being before 2020, do you think it is next year 2019?